Lone Deranger
Apr 9, 01:10 PM
Hard core gaming is PC gaming. Why because you have to really care about the quality of your games to go out and spend 1000 plus just to play games.
Second iOS devices are not competing with nintendo or Sony's portables. People buy an iPhone as a phone, not to play games and the same goes with all the iOS devices. People Pick up a Portable game like a DS or PSP to play games not to listen to music not to surf the web or watch movies. You are comparing a device that does gaming as a secondary function to something that was developed for the one purpose of gaming.
Nintendo and Sony beg to differ....
Second iOS devices are not competing with nintendo or Sony's portables. People buy an iPhone as a phone, not to play games and the same goes with all the iOS devices. People Pick up a Portable game like a DS or PSP to play games not to listen to music not to surf the web or watch movies. You are comparing a device that does gaming as a secondary function to something that was developed for the one purpose of gaming.
Nintendo and Sony beg to differ....
AtomBoy
Oct 7, 07:49 PM
This is my first post but I think I can comment on this thread because my wife and I use both a Mac and a PC in our business.
People get hung up on bench tests but, for me, the real 'speed' difference between a Mac and a PC is uptime.
When my wife's hogging the Mac and I'm stuck on the PC she will be sailing through her work while I'm having to to reboot every couple of hours or so. While the PC is stalling and crashing, the Mac just keeps on working. Benchmarks, more often than not, deal in seconds whereas crashes and reboots are wasting minutes at a time.
On the whole, I use resource-intensive programs, for image/video/audio editing. If I used mainly office programs or if I was a gamer, I'd probably stick to a PC for reasons of cost.
As it is, I'm simply waiting for G5 developements next year to do away with the last PC I'll ever own.
People get hung up on bench tests but, for me, the real 'speed' difference between a Mac and a PC is uptime.
When my wife's hogging the Mac and I'm stuck on the PC she will be sailing through her work while I'm having to to reboot every couple of hours or so. While the PC is stalling and crashing, the Mac just keeps on working. Benchmarks, more often than not, deal in seconds whereas crashes and reboots are wasting minutes at a time.
On the whole, I use resource-intensive programs, for image/video/audio editing. If I used mainly office programs or if I was a gamer, I'd probably stick to a PC for reasons of cost.
As it is, I'm simply waiting for G5 developements next year to do away with the last PC I'll ever own.
skunk
Mar 27, 07:46 PM
If I've harmed anyone in anyone in any way, I want to hear about that from the harmed ones. Everyone here is welcome to his opinion about me. If anyone here hates me, he's welcome to say so publicly or privately. But I think I'm the only one here who knows whether I hate anyone. We're strangers to one another.I do not hate you in the least, but I do recognise hateful, dogmatic propaganda when I see it.
r1ch4rd
Apr 22, 11:15 PM
I know my fair share of theists, and I think that they 'know' they're is a god. They see him in everything and feel him in their every action. I don't think that assuming near 100% certainty is too much of an overstatement.
This is hitting on something important. A viewpoint that I would consider to be a belief is considered fact on the "inside". If something is considered fact then it is difficult to challenge. It would generally seem that atheists like the idea of scientific method and will be open to having their ideas questioned. In this case, I think agnostic atheist is where most sit. It's that distinction between belief and knowledge that I dislike.
EDIT: Grammar
This is hitting on something important. A viewpoint that I would consider to be a belief is considered fact on the "inside". If something is considered fact then it is difficult to challenge. It would generally seem that atheists like the idea of scientific method and will be open to having their ideas questioned. In this case, I think agnostic atheist is where most sit. It's that distinction between belief and knowledge that I dislike.
EDIT: Grammar
archipellago
May 2, 05:02 PM
My head hurts� everyone needs a time out! Go to your corners! :p
sorry, I'm done here now.
sorry, I'm done here now.
Apple OC
Apr 22, 11:37 PM
It depends on what you mean by 'know' I guess.
I cannot even know that my mind is perceiving reality as it actually is. Yet I still have to trust that this perception is valid at least on some levels. In the same way that I know gravity pulls me to the ground, gnostic theists know there is a god.
It's easy to demonstrate, too. Would an insurgent give up the only life he knew for something about which he was uncertain? I certainly wouldn't.
as for suicide bombers knowing that there is a God or Allah ... they are just strong believers ... IMO they "know" nothing and soon find themselves blown into complete silence
I cannot even know that my mind is perceiving reality as it actually is. Yet I still have to trust that this perception is valid at least on some levels. In the same way that I know gravity pulls me to the ground, gnostic theists know there is a god.
It's easy to demonstrate, too. Would an insurgent give up the only life he knew for something about which he was uncertain? I certainly wouldn't.
as for suicide bombers knowing that there is a God or Allah ... they are just strong believers ... IMO they "know" nothing and soon find themselves blown into complete silence
wdogmedia
Aug 29, 01:18 PM
Can we talk about Greenpeace's environmental track record for a minute?
- They mourn the millions of gallons of gasoline burned by cars, but refuse to support diesel fuel, which, while slightly more polluting than gas, is nearly twice as efficient, meaning collective fuel consumption would be cut dramatically.
- They champion E85, which provides only about 70% of the efficiency of gas and requires nearly a gallon of gas to manufacture per gallon of E85.
- Ditto the above for hydrogen-based fuels.
- They've indirectly caused the deaths of thousands of starving Africans by preventing the development of genetically-engineered foods.
So who is Greenpeace accountable to?
- They mourn the millions of gallons of gasoline burned by cars, but refuse to support diesel fuel, which, while slightly more polluting than gas, is nearly twice as efficient, meaning collective fuel consumption would be cut dramatically.
- They champion E85, which provides only about 70% of the efficiency of gas and requires nearly a gallon of gas to manufacture per gallon of E85.
- Ditto the above for hydrogen-based fuels.
- They've indirectly caused the deaths of thousands of starving Africans by preventing the development of genetically-engineered foods.
So who is Greenpeace accountable to?
BoyBach
Aug 30, 07:56 AM
I'm a officer (imagery information analyst) for the defence force. In my line of work I get this inanely useless "hippy crap" 24 hour a day 7 days a week
The army is full of hippies? :eek: :D
Or are you spying on hippy communes? <shifty eyes>
:D
The army is full of hippies? :eek: :D
Or are you spying on hippy communes? <shifty eyes>
:D
alex_ant
Oct 9, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by gopher
Maybe we have, but nobody has provided compelling evidence to the contrary.
You must be joking. Reference after reference has been provided and you simply break from the thread, only to re-emerge in another thread later. This has happened at least twice now that I can remember.
The Mac hardware is capable of 18 billion floating calculations a second. Whether the software takes advantage of it that's another issue entirely.
My arse is capable of making 8-pound turds, but whether or not I eat enough baked beans to take advantage of that is another issue entirely. In other words,
18 gigaflops = about as likely as an 8-pound turd in my toilet. Possible, yes (under the most severely ridiculous condtions). Real-world, no.
If someone is going to argue that Macs don't have good floating point performance, just look at the specs.
For the - what is this, fifth? - time now: AltiVec is incapable of double precision, and is capable of accelerating only that code which is written specifically to take advantage of it. Which is some of it. Which means any high "gigaflops" performance quotes deserve large asterisks next to them.
If they really want good performance and aren't getting it they need to contact their favorite developer to work with the specs and Apple's developer relations.
Exactly, this is the whole problem - if a developer wants good performance and can't get it, they have to jump through hoops and waste time and money that they shouldn't have to waste.
Apple provides the hardware, it is up to developer companies to utilize the hardware the best way they can. If they can't utilize Apple's hardware to its most efficient mode, then they should find better developers.
Way to encourage Mac development, huh? "Hey guys, come develop for our platform! We've got a 3.5% national desktop market share and a 2% world desktop market share, and we have an uncertain future! We want YOU to spend time and money porting your software to OUR platform, and on top of that, we want YOU to go the extra mile to waste time and money that you shouldn't have to waste just to ensure that your code doesn't run like a dog on our ancient wack-job hack of a processor!"
If you are going to complain that Apple doesn't have good floating point performance, don't use a PC biased spec like Specfp.
"PC biased spec like SPECfp?" Yes, the reason PPC does so poorly in SPEC is because SPECfp is biased towards Intel, AMD, Sun, MIPS, HP/Compaq, and IBM (all of whose chips blow the G4 out of the water, and not only the x86 chips - the workstation and server chips too, literally ALL of them), and Apple's miserable performance is a conspiracy engineered by The Man, right?
Go by actual floating point calculations a second.
Why? FLOPS is as dumb a benchmark as MIPS. That's the reason cross-platform benchmarks exist.
Nobody has shown anything to say that PCs can do more floating point calculations a second. And until someone does I stand by my claim.
An Athlon 1700+ scores about what, 575 in SPECfp2000 (depending on the system)? Results for the 1.25GHz G4 are unavailable (because Apple is ashamed to publish them), but the 1GHz does about 175. Let's be very gracious and assume the new GCC has got the 1.25GHz G4 up to 300. That's STILL terrible. So how about an accurate summary of the G4's floating point performance:
On the whole, poor.******
* Very strong on applications well-suited to AltiVec and optimized to take advantage of it.
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Maybe we have, but nobody has provided compelling evidence to the contrary.
You must be joking. Reference after reference has been provided and you simply break from the thread, only to re-emerge in another thread later. This has happened at least twice now that I can remember.
The Mac hardware is capable of 18 billion floating calculations a second. Whether the software takes advantage of it that's another issue entirely.
My arse is capable of making 8-pound turds, but whether or not I eat enough baked beans to take advantage of that is another issue entirely. In other words,
18 gigaflops = about as likely as an 8-pound turd in my toilet. Possible, yes (under the most severely ridiculous condtions). Real-world, no.
If someone is going to argue that Macs don't have good floating point performance, just look at the specs.
For the - what is this, fifth? - time now: AltiVec is incapable of double precision, and is capable of accelerating only that code which is written specifically to take advantage of it. Which is some of it. Which means any high "gigaflops" performance quotes deserve large asterisks next to them.
If they really want good performance and aren't getting it they need to contact their favorite developer to work with the specs and Apple's developer relations.
Exactly, this is the whole problem - if a developer wants good performance and can't get it, they have to jump through hoops and waste time and money that they shouldn't have to waste.
Apple provides the hardware, it is up to developer companies to utilize the hardware the best way they can. If they can't utilize Apple's hardware to its most efficient mode, then they should find better developers.
Way to encourage Mac development, huh? "Hey guys, come develop for our platform! We've got a 3.5% national desktop market share and a 2% world desktop market share, and we have an uncertain future! We want YOU to spend time and money porting your software to OUR platform, and on top of that, we want YOU to go the extra mile to waste time and money that you shouldn't have to waste just to ensure that your code doesn't run like a dog on our ancient wack-job hack of a processor!"
If you are going to complain that Apple doesn't have good floating point performance, don't use a PC biased spec like Specfp.
"PC biased spec like SPECfp?" Yes, the reason PPC does so poorly in SPEC is because SPECfp is biased towards Intel, AMD, Sun, MIPS, HP/Compaq, and IBM (all of whose chips blow the G4 out of the water, and not only the x86 chips - the workstation and server chips too, literally ALL of them), and Apple's miserable performance is a conspiracy engineered by The Man, right?
Go by actual floating point calculations a second.
Why? FLOPS is as dumb a benchmark as MIPS. That's the reason cross-platform benchmarks exist.
Nobody has shown anything to say that PCs can do more floating point calculations a second. And until someone does I stand by my claim.
An Athlon 1700+ scores about what, 575 in SPECfp2000 (depending on the system)? Results for the 1.25GHz G4 are unavailable (because Apple is ashamed to publish them), but the 1GHz does about 175. Let's be very gracious and assume the new GCC has got the 1.25GHz G4 up to 300. That's STILL terrible. So how about an accurate summary of the G4's floating point performance:
On the whole, poor.******
* Very strong on applications well-suited to AltiVec and optimized to take advantage of it.
r1ch4rd
Apr 22, 10:23 PM
lol ... there are some weird things on the US currency ... what is with the floating eye on top of a Pyramid?
It's the Eye of Providence! The all seeing eye of God. It also has some sort of connection to the Freemasons (I'm not sure how true that is!).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence
It's the Eye of Providence! The all seeing eye of God. It also has some sort of connection to the Freemasons (I'm not sure how true that is!).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence
aquadjcity
Oct 31, 09:00 AM
My quad was to ship today, after waiting four business days and two weekend days for a CTO build (2 GB RAM). But I would feel sick to have had the machine for a week when the Octo's are announced. I hope this baby makes Logic Pro sing...
thejadedmonkey
Apr 12, 11:43 PM
I was just sitting at work, with 3 co-workers today. We were looking at a cut of footage I had from when my organization visited the capitol. Tweak this... 4 minutes later... good, but try moving that there instead... 4 minutes later...
That alone has me all psyched. This was a brand new i5 machine, too. Got in about a week ago. Being able to save 12 minutes moving a clip back and forth by .08 seconds is a lifesaver.
For what I use FCS for, FCPX looks great! With the price drop, somehow it's less money for a MBP than a comparable PC and Adobe... I'm psyched for a new portable setup come next fall!
That alone has me all psyched. This was a brand new i5 machine, too. Got in about a week ago. Being able to save 12 minutes moving a clip back and forth by .08 seconds is a lifesaver.
For what I use FCS for, FCPX looks great! With the price drop, somehow it's less money for a MBP than a comparable PC and Adobe... I'm psyched for a new portable setup come next fall!
fleggy
Mar 18, 01:58 PM
When are you all going to realize that this is marketing fluff?
Let me give you a possible scenario...(something to lighten the mood)
AT&T Infrastructure: Wow - these new smart phones use a lot of data. We need to restrict it.
AT&T Marketing: Yes, well, we can't tell customers the restrictions - it will lose us business. I want to tell them it is unlimited!
AT&T Infrastructure: No way...it will kill us - especially with tethering! I'd be happy with it restricted to the smart phone only.
AT&T Legal: We can insert a clause...restricting to this device only...no tethering.
AT&T Marketing: Yes, yes! I can just mention and promote unlimited, and the actual usage can be buried in the ToS. I like it.
AT&T release "unlimited data for the iPhone" knowing full well that even if your iPhone downloads 24x7 - their network can handle it (although this will never happen in reality).
Everyone flocks to buy it and SIGN UP.
Selecting which part of the service to market IS mis-leading, however...it is pretty clear - "this device only".
Everything in America is like this. Marketing is a black art form here!! You can't pick and choose which parts of the marketing and ToS you like!
Let me give you a possible scenario...(something to lighten the mood)
AT&T Infrastructure: Wow - these new smart phones use a lot of data. We need to restrict it.
AT&T Marketing: Yes, well, we can't tell customers the restrictions - it will lose us business. I want to tell them it is unlimited!
AT&T Infrastructure: No way...it will kill us - especially with tethering! I'd be happy with it restricted to the smart phone only.
AT&T Legal: We can insert a clause...restricting to this device only...no tethering.
AT&T Marketing: Yes, yes! I can just mention and promote unlimited, and the actual usage can be buried in the ToS. I like it.
AT&T release "unlimited data for the iPhone" knowing full well that even if your iPhone downloads 24x7 - their network can handle it (although this will never happen in reality).
Everyone flocks to buy it and SIGN UP.
Selecting which part of the service to market IS mis-leading, however...it is pretty clear - "this device only".
Everything in America is like this. Marketing is a black art form here!! You can't pick and choose which parts of the marketing and ToS you like!
AppliedVisual
Oct 24, 04:38 PM
In three years they will have something much better, might as well wait!:p
Yeah, I'm not buying until the 32" 4K resolution monitors hit $1599. :rolleyes:
Yeah, I'm not buying until the 32" 4K resolution monitors hit $1599. :rolleyes:
AhmedFaisal
Mar 15, 10:41 PM
Chernobyl was 25 years ago and Russia was not very open to outside help ... no matter how bad this escalades ... somehow this will be contained.
Irrespective of that, given that the reactor design is not the same as Chernobyl an accident of that sort is simply not possible with these reactor types. Chernobyl was a supercriticality event, a runaway nuclear reaction which is a high risk in a high positive void coefficient design like the RBMK which uses graphite as a moderator and water simply for cooling. Loss of cooling in this design leads to a nuclear explosion due to gas bubbles being less off a neutron absorber than liquid and burning graphite along with it. BWR designs such as the ones in Fukushima can't go supercritical if coolant is lost. Thus an explosion and moderator burn such as the one in Chernobyl can't happen. As such, the worst case is a local loss of containment and core melt that can lead to moderate amounts of radioactivity escaping into the immediate local environment. A widespread contamination over hundreds of square miles is simply not possible. As such, the current news reporting is irresponsible spreading of half baked information and knowledge and nothing but fearmongering.
The same goes for some of the BS that is being posted about Germany's reactors or other reactors in western Europe for that matter. Western EU countries do not use RBMK type technology or other high positive void coefficient designs, the only ones that still do is the Czech Republic and a few other former Soviet countries and these reactors are being phased out and being replaced by modern LWR and other designs with western aid.
Irrespective of that, given that the reactor design is not the same as Chernobyl an accident of that sort is simply not possible with these reactor types. Chernobyl was a supercriticality event, a runaway nuclear reaction which is a high risk in a high positive void coefficient design like the RBMK which uses graphite as a moderator and water simply for cooling. Loss of cooling in this design leads to a nuclear explosion due to gas bubbles being less off a neutron absorber than liquid and burning graphite along with it. BWR designs such as the ones in Fukushima can't go supercritical if coolant is lost. Thus an explosion and moderator burn such as the one in Chernobyl can't happen. As such, the worst case is a local loss of containment and core melt that can lead to moderate amounts of radioactivity escaping into the immediate local environment. A widespread contamination over hundreds of square miles is simply not possible. As such, the current news reporting is irresponsible spreading of half baked information and knowledge and nothing but fearmongering.
The same goes for some of the BS that is being posted about Germany's reactors or other reactors in western Europe for that matter. Western EU countries do not use RBMK type technology or other high positive void coefficient designs, the only ones that still do is the Czech Republic and a few other former Soviet countries and these reactors are being phased out and being replaced by modern LWR and other designs with western aid.
makinao
Mar 11, 02:28 AM
As of 0730 GMT, Philippines is now under alert level 2. Its now 0830 GMT. Bracing for tsunami in the next hour.
http://ndcc.gov.ph/attachments/article/165/NDRRMC%20Advisory%20Tsunami%20Bulletin%20No.%202,%2011March2011,%203PM.pdf
http://ndcc.gov.ph/attachments/article/165/NDRRMC%20Advisory%20Tsunami%20Bulletin%20No.%202,%2011March2011,%203PM.pdf
Sydde
Apr 26, 11:53 PM
Huntn, please show me some evidence for what you're saying. Then I'll tell you what I think of it. Meanwhile, I should admit that the Bible's original manuscripts no longer exist, and there are copyists' mistakes in the existing copies. There are mistranslations in at least some Bible translations. Take Matthew 24:24 in the King James Version. It's ungrammatical. But I still need you to give us some evidence that, for example, some tendentious ancient people tampered with Bible passages.
Tampering with the text is not, per se, the real issue. What Huntn us probably referring to is the selective composition of the whole. The Protestant bible typically has 66 books. Some other versions can have as many as 81 (see "biblical apocrypha (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha)"). Then there are fascinating tales such as the Gospel According to Judas Iscariot (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas) and the Gospel of Barnabas (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas), which relate a rather different account of the last days of Jesus.
Finally, one cannot ignore the Nag Hammadi texts (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi_library) nor the books summarily left out (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha) of the new testament.
So what? So someone had to decide which books belonged in there and which did not. The choice was most certainly partly arbitrary and partly political. I mean, even if you could reasonably claim divine inspiration for the authorship, can you also claim divine guidance for the compilation? Especially considering that various Christian sects cannot agree on even that.
Tampering with the text is not, per se, the real issue. What Huntn us probably referring to is the selective composition of the whole. The Protestant bible typically has 66 books. Some other versions can have as many as 81 (see "biblical apocrypha (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha)"). Then there are fascinating tales such as the Gospel According to Judas Iscariot (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas) and the Gospel of Barnabas (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas), which relate a rather different account of the last days of Jesus.
Finally, one cannot ignore the Nag Hammadi texts (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi_library) nor the books summarily left out (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha) of the new testament.
So what? So someone had to decide which books belonged in there and which did not. The choice was most certainly partly arbitrary and partly political. I mean, even if you could reasonably claim divine inspiration for the authorship, can you also claim divine guidance for the compilation? Especially considering that various Christian sects cannot agree on even that.
ricgnzlzcr
Oct 25, 11:08 PM
Right. According to Apple's current pricing, the 2.33GHz Dual Clovertown would be +$800 IF they offer it. However, Apple may only offer the 2.66GHz Dual Clovertown for + $1100 and keep the rest of the offerings priced as they are now.
That way they keep the top 8-core more expensive than any of the less expensive and way less powerful 4-core models. From a marketing point of view this makes a lot more sense to me - since I plan on buying the Dual 2.66GHz Clovertown for +$1100, total $3599 BASE or more if they insist. This is one time when I don't care how much it costs - I need it NOW.
I would understand how your Quad G5 is getting a tad on the slow side;) . I feel pretty intense with my single 1 ghz G4.
Unlike me though, you actually require that processor power. Can't wait till you post your impressions of your OctoMac within an hour of getting it!!
That way they keep the top 8-core more expensive than any of the less expensive and way less powerful 4-core models. From a marketing point of view this makes a lot more sense to me - since I plan on buying the Dual 2.66GHz Clovertown for +$1100, total $3599 BASE or more if they insist. This is one time when I don't care how much it costs - I need it NOW.
I would understand how your Quad G5 is getting a tad on the slow side;) . I feel pretty intense with my single 1 ghz G4.
Unlike me though, you actually require that processor power. Can't wait till you post your impressions of your OctoMac within an hour of getting it!!
edesignuk
Oct 8, 07:09 AM
I don't understand why some of you are having such a hard time believing this.
The iPhone is great, it's not going any where. It is however one device from one company, and it's never going to be low (or even mid) end [of the market].
Android has the world at it's feet, really. It has an apps store (with 15,000 apps so far), you're not locked in to using this apps store though, others can come along, or you can just copy an app to your phone and install it (no jailbreaking crap needed).
Windows Mobile is a dead horse, iPhone OS is closed, but people want smart phones. Android to the rescue.
Any manufacturer can take Android, they can design any handset with any features they like to sell in different markets and at different budgets. They don't have to invest a fortune in developing an OS themselves, or the infrastructure to support it. It's all done for them. If they want to they can have a few devs customising Android to some extent, but it's not a huge commitment. They can just as easily leave it alone and not have to do anything with it.
Really seems like many a manufacturers wet dream.
The iPhone is great, it's not going any where. It is however one device from one company, and it's never going to be low (or even mid) end [of the market].
Android has the world at it's feet, really. It has an apps store (with 15,000 apps so far), you're not locked in to using this apps store though, others can come along, or you can just copy an app to your phone and install it (no jailbreaking crap needed).
Windows Mobile is a dead horse, iPhone OS is closed, but people want smart phones. Android to the rescue.
Any manufacturer can take Android, they can design any handset with any features they like to sell in different markets and at different budgets. They don't have to invest a fortune in developing an OS themselves, or the infrastructure to support it. It's all done for them. If they want to they can have a few devs customising Android to some extent, but it's not a huge commitment. They can just as easily leave it alone and not have to do anything with it.
Really seems like many a manufacturers wet dream.
ender land
Apr 23, 09:29 PM
Wow. I see it completely the other way. The religious people look at the atheists as lost souls, sinners, who need to be saved. They want their beliefs to be the basis for our laws. They need to have god thrown in our faces, on our money, in our pledges, in our courtrooms, etc. etc. And this is in the land of the free where separation of church and state is supposed to be one our most basic rights!
Don't believe me, check any poll about who people in the United States trust or who they would vote for. Atheists are always at the bottom of both lists!
How many people became theistic because of atheism? Or have their religious views strengthened as a result of atheism?
How many people became atheist because of religion? Or have their atheistic views strengthened as a result of religion?
This was my point in that statement.
And of course atheists will be less trusted. Atheism rejects non-societal Morals (unless you want to pull the "absolute morals exist and god(s) do not" version of atheism). Morality is completely defined by society at that point or at a more direct sense, by us.
Someone who is a practicing theist has a "standard" of Morals to abide by. Granted, a lot - if not most - of politicians are the "I'm a once a month Christian so people will vote for me" type but some (like GWB for better or worse) appear to take their faith with them to the office. This is a far more reliable set of beliefs, whether or not you agree with them, than someone who has arbitrary or personally decided morals.
Don't believe me, check any poll about who people in the United States trust or who they would vote for. Atheists are always at the bottom of both lists!
How many people became theistic because of atheism? Or have their religious views strengthened as a result of atheism?
How many people became atheist because of religion? Or have their atheistic views strengthened as a result of religion?
This was my point in that statement.
And of course atheists will be less trusted. Atheism rejects non-societal Morals (unless you want to pull the "absolute morals exist and god(s) do not" version of atheism). Morality is completely defined by society at that point or at a more direct sense, by us.
Someone who is a practicing theist has a "standard" of Morals to abide by. Granted, a lot - if not most - of politicians are the "I'm a once a month Christian so people will vote for me" type but some (like GWB for better or worse) appear to take their faith with them to the office. This is a far more reliable set of beliefs, whether or not you agree with them, than someone who has arbitrary or personally decided morals.
Reach
Apr 13, 02:35 AM
So far so good as far as I'm concerned. Very interested to see the rest of the Studio.
iJohnHenry
Apr 25, 12:33 PM
This takes responsibility away from what God would want, to what we think is right. I believe this to be a more realistic approach.
Comma added, because my brain was starting to hurt. ;)
And I agree, but then 'power' is lost, and that just won't do, now will it? :rolleyes:
Comma added, because my brain was starting to hurt. ;)
And I agree, but then 'power' is lost, and that just won't do, now will it? :rolleyes:
arkitect
Apr 15, 12:16 PM
What are you talking about? Don't blame your ignorance on semantics. Try understanding what you read first.
If you are talking about an unmarried straight couple, then yes, you can have same-sex sex and it's "just as OK", i.e., equally not OK.
No. I am not blaming my confusion on semantics� ;)
So, according to your interpretation of the CCC:
unmarried straight couples are having "sinful" sex.
unmarried same-sex couples are having "sinful" sex.
married (but not in a church) straight couples are having sinful sex.
married (but not in a church) same-sex couples are having sinful sex.
married (Catholics) are having sinful sex, if not purely for reproduction.
Which leaves us with�
married (Catholics) are having righteous sex, but only if for reproduction.
Such fun!
Did you maybe mean celibacy? I'm sorry that this confusion has happened to you. I know, there are lots of words in the English language and it's really hard to keep track of them all.
I suggest a dictionary. There are many on the web, even.
Insulting language never helps.
Here is a link to a *gasp* dictionary!
linky (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chastity)
Definition a and b.
Although I suppose you'd go for c and d. Right?
If you are talking about an unmarried straight couple, then yes, you can have same-sex sex and it's "just as OK", i.e., equally not OK.
No. I am not blaming my confusion on semantics� ;)
So, according to your interpretation of the CCC:
unmarried straight couples are having "sinful" sex.
unmarried same-sex couples are having "sinful" sex.
married (but not in a church) straight couples are having sinful sex.
married (but not in a church) same-sex couples are having sinful sex.
married (Catholics) are having sinful sex, if not purely for reproduction.
Which leaves us with�
married (Catholics) are having righteous sex, but only if for reproduction.
Such fun!
Did you maybe mean celibacy? I'm sorry that this confusion has happened to you. I know, there are lots of words in the English language and it's really hard to keep track of them all.
I suggest a dictionary. There are many on the web, even.
Insulting language never helps.
Here is a link to a *gasp* dictionary!
linky (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chastity)
Definition a and b.
Although I suppose you'd go for c and d. Right?
MacRumors
Jul 14, 02:03 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Apple's forthcoming Mac Pro will sport dual Optical Drive slots, if a recent report from AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1886) pans out. In addition, the power supply is rumored to be moved from the bottom of the enclosure to the top. Otherwise, the enclosure would remain largely unchanged from today's PowerMac G5 design.
ThinkSecret currently believes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060704122932.shtml) the Mac Pro enclosure change will be a more radical departure from the present design to signify the processor change.
Also mentioned in the article is an independent report of possible specifications for the new machines with the "Best" configuration topping out at two 2.66 Ghz Xeon processors. This anonymous source sent possible specs for the Mac Pro to both MacRumors and Appleinsider, and while the validity of the specs are uncertain, the anonymous specs also independently claimed the new Mac Pro would have two optical drives.
Apple's forthcoming Mac Pro will sport dual Optical Drive slots, if a recent report from AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1886) pans out. In addition, the power supply is rumored to be moved from the bottom of the enclosure to the top. Otherwise, the enclosure would remain largely unchanged from today's PowerMac G5 design.
ThinkSecret currently believes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060704122932.shtml) the Mac Pro enclosure change will be a more radical departure from the present design to signify the processor change.
Also mentioned in the article is an independent report of possible specifications for the new machines with the "Best" configuration topping out at two 2.66 Ghz Xeon processors. This anonymous source sent possible specs for the Mac Pro to both MacRumors and Appleinsider, and while the validity of the specs are uncertain, the anonymous specs also independently claimed the new Mac Pro would have two optical drives.
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